Mental health and trauma

Charlotte

Hello, welcome everyone. Welcome to Uniting Against Violence. We are a group of parents who have come together to create a podcast for parents, and anyone else who is concerned with serious youth violence and wants to take action to reduce it. Our group is a mix of parent champions and ambassadors from London’s Violence Reduction Unit, and The Parent House, a charity based in Islington. I’m Charlotte and today we’re focusing on mental health and trauma. We’ll be looking at what trauma and mental health is, the impact that it has on people, our communities and what we can do about it. Our guest speakers this week are Mitchelle Greenaway, counsellor and founder of Jigsaw GC, which helps young people make positive choices to reduce violence. We also have Kyle Addy, who founded Men in Motion, a community group from helping men build community and reduce loneliness. And Ashleigh Jackson, one of our Parent Champions and Ambassadors and a Mental Health First Aider. So thanks for joining us all today, as it one doing. So I’m gonna go to Mitchelle, would you just like to tell me a little bit about what you do?

Mitchelle

Okay, so what don’t I do? Okay, so I co-founded a community interest company, I’ll start with that, called Jigsaw Get Connected, where we work with young people and families across London. Within that, we put mentors and counsellors in schools. And then we run interventions and workshops in the community. So we’re just trying to give young people experiences that shows them there’s more than the bubble they’re in. And we work with families as well, so parents, because one of the things is people put the support in for the children, but actually, parents need that same support. Because when the child leaves us, that can be great, but then they’re still going home. And then if we give the parents the skills, to then support their child, and also be supported, that then create a different environment. So I’m the therapist within jigsaw, but as also a mentor. And then I’m a life coach, but I do that outside of that. 

Kyle

Thank you Mitchelle. Kyle, tell us a little bit about what you do. I run various projects. So I run a men’s group, which is a weekly men’s group for men of all backgrounds, nationalities, races, to come together and just talk about issues that affect us, our families and our communities. It’s a safe space. So whatever your opinion, your view of some kids is your opinion, I can’t tell you that you’re wrong or right for it. And it’s your own experience. I also run children’s workshops, children’s and adults workshops, where I teach them jewellery making and basic woodwork skills. And I’m now just about to start a young boys mentoring program where I’ve had a few families that have seen what I do and asked me to do extra curriculum with their children. So these are like single parent families that have sons that don’t have no model models in their life. So I would then take them off and do certain activities with them, take them bike riding, roller skating, whatever the case may be, something that the mum wouldn’t normally do with them.

Charlotte

Yeah, and there’s not a lot of stuff like that out there. 

Ashleigh

Note taking for me! So right now, I do voluntary work for the parent house. I do peer mentoring level three, I’m trying to do four different businesses, which is facials, massage in and then psychotherapy and counseling. And then I am a part of the Violence Reduction unit parent champions. So what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to establish a charity business through the Violence Reduction Unit, which is based in Islington Council to kind of give back to other parents that may not know where to signpost, we signpost them. And we’re trying to also get into schools so that we can also do workshops and interventions.

Charlotte

That’s really amazing. We’ve got a lot of skills and a lot of love in this room. I really am feeling that. So what we were talking about is mental health. So in your experience, what is trauma and mental health? I’ll go to you Mitchell.

Mitchelle

What is trauma and mental health? So I suppose let’s start with mental health. It’s such a broad word. And it’s quite scary word. Mental health is about, I like to say, wellbeing and it’s different scales of wellbeing. Because mental health for me is more when it’s diagnosed in regards to maybe schizophrenia, like those high end illnesses, whereas a lot of people see mental health and think everyone’s got mental health different ways. So it’s like a wellbeing scale. And depending on where you are within, your wellbeing might be like, more, more intense. So it might be that emotionally you’re not you’re not doing very well. So it creates anxiety, those kinds of things. And then sometimes you could be at a different scale where you’re feeling great, you’re feeling good, and it’s just different points of what’s going on for your wellbeing and what’s going on your life.

Charlotte

I think that’s a great way to explain it. Okay, so what kind of impact does trauma have on families and young people? Ashleigh I’ll ask you that question.

Ashleigh

I think that it’s, it takes a big impact on them to be honest with you. Because if the child is unaware at the time that there is a hefty situation that’s going on within their family, and as they get older, they realize that there’s secrets or whatever that could be in their family. And then they realize that that’s taken a toll on their body, that mental health. They’re not realizing that, when they move when they get older, into like working life, that they’re taken on these these traumas. So like you’ve said about, because it, not realizing that you’re struggling with that, not realizing the identity of the method of that. So you’re then realizing, okay, as I get older, I’m dealing with this not realizing it’s taken a toll on your body. And that, you know, you could also be impacting someone else within the family or friend, it just takes, it’s just, it’s like a, what’s the word, like a snowball effect?

Kyle

You run programs you don’t realize yeah? You have built up certain defense mechanisms, carried them on throughout life. So the impact that it’s going to have on you and your family is going to be detrimental in some way or another.

Mitchelle

I think trauma is something that’s individual. So for instance, there are people going through different traumatic stress, they don’t realize they’ve been through trauma. So like when in a car accident, that’s trauma, traumatic, that’s trauma. Even a young child, like their version, of like a three year old, shouting –  that’s traumatic. There’s different things that –  Trauma is, again, another scale and comes, I think people think that trauma is something that’s like at this end, but it’s those little things that keep building up, that can create who we become and our experiences and then create the element of the mental health. 

Ashleigh

Or even creating a small box in your mind and continuing to try to get on with your life not realizing that it’s scurrying in the back of your your mind just to kind of get out then you realize when you get older that I was dealing with a lot.

Charlotte

That will bring me on nicely to talking about mental health and trauma and the effects it has on our young, young people in our families. What kind of effect you reckon it has on the wider community? I put that question to you, Kyle, because you do a lot of work in the community. 

Kyle

In the wider community, what I’ve noticed in the last sort of like specially 5,10 years, a lot of guys, even down to females that I know of my age, have gone to the point where they’ve either on drugs, or they’re ended up being sectioned in hospital. And from that point, and then it’s not just that person that’s been sectioned. It’s the parents they live with, it’s their children’s mum that they live with, whoever it is that they’re around. They then have to pick up whatever’s left of this person’s done. And especially with the younger children, especially a lot of over the last 10,15 years, the amount of youth centres and community centres that’s actually been shut down and closed. They’ve got nowhere to go now. So they’re looking at these people on the streets and “Can I be? Do you know, what I can be like them?” Not realizing that going down that road, not realising you’re either gonna end up either in hospital, dead or in jail. So it’s yeah, it’s affecting the whole community as well as just that individual now, and yeah, it’s taking its toll on everyone. Children are not really…a lot of them are smoking skunk, and whatever. That is actually had a lot of problems with mental health. I’ve seen a lot of young people that they can just about string a sentence together. Yeah. So let alone go for an interview or go and seek help for anyone else. They, they’re lost. And they’re just stuck in a cycle where they can’t come out of it, for all they know, is drugs and the street. So as I said, yeah, it’s starting to affect everyone and everyone in the community. And what about in in your, your business, your service that you’re providing? What kind of effect do think it’s having on families? 

Mitchelle

You definitely see the lack of motivation, the lack of understanding, like thinking forward. So you will have the young people, like, I don’t even feel like, even 15 years ago, like working in schools, like I’ve been working with for 20 years, but the mindset of some of the young girls, the young boys is like, it’s like they’ve been here for longer than they should have been. Because they are just surrounded by so much. They’re seeing so much more than like, when we were growing up, like hanging around the corner and going around like riding your bike. It was different riding bikes. Now there’s like riding bikes and you might be robbing somewhere.

Charlotte

Yeah. Or your bike might be getting robbed off you. 

Mitchelle

Yeah, you can’t really go with your bike and just leave your bike on this on the side. Whereas before, when I was growing up, I could leave my bike outside the shop, and come back and it still be there. 

Kyle

And do you know what as well, even not just that –  a lot of them won’t go from one postcode to another. So they won’t ride their bikes. I’ve been out with some guys and they said, “Well, we can’t go down to that park and cycle.” We’re all together on a bike, but they just won’t do it. 

Charlotte

And what kind of effect do you reckon its having on our young people’s mental health? And I mean, you’re scared to go from one part of the area.

Mitchelle

Yeah, you know, it’s so sad but a lot of the generation at the moment, they’re at this desensitized place. It’s so out there that and then parents don’t know how to support their kids with this because the kids might just seem fine or, and it’s just this ripple effect that’s happening. And I think a lot of the time, we’re not pushing it until it’s really close within our remit, on your doorstep. And I think it’s something that we need to bring back in regards to community. It is affecting our young people’s mental health, because the fact that at the moment, they’re suppressing things that they just see now as their new norm, that we’re gonna see the effects in about three, four or five years time, if we’re not putting in the support.

Charlotte

This is not normal thinking is it? Like, thinking about trauma, we’re talking about the kids, you know, worried to walk around the streets or even ride their bikes. If you’re experiencing trauma or your mental health is suffering, how would you know that? I’ll put that to you Mitchelle because you’re a counsellor. 

Mitchelle

The thing is, I think people don’t necessarily know. Because you’re not taught, we’re not taught, to understand ourselves. So we’re not taught to like, for instance, fear and worry is something you’re not taught. If you think of a child, a child is a sponge, from the moment they come to school, they know nothing. They literally learn everything through their environment. They learn to walk, talk everything through the adults around them, and then it goes into school. So the environment gets wider, but it’s still learning for everyone else. You think about a child that may be getting in trouble at home. Maybe you got a three year old going to touch the oven, what is the parent doing? They shout, but they’re not shouting because they’re angry. 

Kyle

It’s fear – the parents fear. 

Mitchelle

But the fact that the child is seeing anger, the child doesn’t…. Parents don’t normally sit down with them and say, “Actually, I’m worried.” Even when a child’s coming home late, a lot of parents are screaming, shouting, but it’s that they’re scared and they’re worried about their childhood. A child doesn’t…as even adults, if you think about it, you haven’t learned what fear looks like. You learned fear from maybe watching a horror movie. So you think that’s what fear is. So a lot of the thing is people don’t realize how they’re feeling because it’s not something we’ve learned. Yeah. So when you’re going through something traumatic, what we’ve learned is just keep going. Yeah, and if you can’t keep going, then something’s wrong. And then, you then don’t want to tell someone “oh my God” but actually… So it’s something we’re not taught. So initially, people won’t know that they’re there. They are in a process of trauma, or they’re going through something and it’s not until they’re sitting in a space where they can – You say to them, “You’ve been through this, this, this, this, this. If someone else had come to you and been like, ‘wow.'” Like sometimes you sit there, people really don’t realize that they’ve been through so much. Yeah, they’re going through so much.

Kyle

Even when they’re explaining it to you, what they’ve been through, they still don’t realise that’s what’s causing that trauma. 

Mitchelle

You have to get them to get out of their own situation for them to then sit down and think, “Wow.”

Charlotte

I explain it myself, it’s like being in a video, yeah. I mean, when you start talking about things and not everyone can understand it, and then all of a sudden you’re thinking, “Actually, has this happened to me? Like, is this my life?” Kyle, do you think that trauma differs like between men? Is there a difference with how, you know, they experience it? 

Kyle

I don’t think there’s a difference in how they experience it. I think there’s a difference in how they process it and how they deal with it. Men in this society have been brought up to be a man, you gotta man up, you can’t show your emotions. If you’re out on the road, you’ve got peer pressure, and you can’t be seen to be the weak person because if you’re a weak person, you’re the weakest link you know, they’re just gonna get bullied. So with men it’s more of a “I can deal with this I can I can deal with it. That’s alright, no worries, no problem.” And you ask a man how he is, it’s very rarely he will turn around and say to you, “You know what, I’m ok, but really this is going on.” Really? That’s going on? Nine times out of 10: “Yeah, I’m good. I’m good.” And that’s all you hear from them. So as I said, it’s not a matter of how we… whatever trauma it is, it’s just a matter of we will deal with it differently. Whereas majority time, most women are more in touch with their emotions. Men block all their emotions. So if they’ve had a bad childhood, their way of dealing with it is, “Right I got to be the bigger man, I got go gym, I got to do this, I got to do that. I got to be shown to be the man.” And yeah, definitely. That’s the bad part about it, the detrimental part about it to how men deal with it. 

Ashleigh

It is also changing. 

Kyle

Yes, a lot more men are now starting to become more aware of what’s actually caused problems. Because the other thing as well, I know, probably at least like 10 men in the last few years that’s come down with very serious illnesses or diet or even committed suicide. And that’s because they feel that there’s no way out or there’s no one to talk to, or they can talk to. So like we’ve been this men’s group, the amount of men I’ve seen come and break down, because they’ve had an had an outlet to come and say, “All right, you know what? I can say what I gotta say without no one questioning me or judging me.” So, yeah, as I said, it’s the way we deal..

Ashleigh

So you’ve also got other men from all walks of life, there sitting down, yes, not just from the road, so it kind of makes it feel like okay, this man is talking about what he’s gone through that I can feel like I can talk. And at least when they leave there, you can see their shoulders have dropped – it’s amazing.

Mitchelle

And I’ve seen a lot more men coming for therapy, like, I’ve got more actually, more men than females now. And before that, like I’ve been a therapist for nine years, and that, it was predominantly the other way around. Yeah. So, like what you said is slowly changing, because more people are talking about it, and more people are coming forward saying “I’m not okay.” And I think the more we kind of talk about support and not seek…. like the word is strength, I think, men think their version of what strong is, and what their learned conditioning was strong as “I don’t cry” – 

Kyle

– yeah because, for a man, being vulnerable means being weak. 

Mitchelle

But actually, obviously like when you’re working with people and getting them to really change how they see strength. Because strength, actually, you actually look at what strength is. Strength is someone that can pick up weights, or like pick up a car, like that’s what actual strength is. But people have made that into a mental strength. And that’s not what it is. Mentally, it’s being able to be vulnerable. It’s being able to be brave, and talk about how you’re feeling and actually say I’m not okay. And if people don’t, when I sit with people, and I say to them, “Do you know how brave you are coming and talking right now, because that is not easy.” And then when they realize actually the way emotional strength and physical strength are two different things. And that’s what we need to really just kind of change the learning.

Charlotte

So how do we look after our mental health? How do you Mitchelle, I’m going to ask you, how do you look after your mental health?

Mitchelle

I look after my mental health by, I was actually talking about this yesterday with my students, I teach the level three, therapy course, like counseling course. So one of the things I was saying is, I have to have therapy, obviously, because I’m a therapist. Well, you should, it’s not that you have to, I choose to. So every now and again, I’ll have a top up a couple of times a year, I have supervision as well. So I think within working people don’t necessarily know that they need support within your job, especially frontline workers. So within our company, we make sure everyone has supervision. Yeah, place to reflect a place to see how work is impacting them, so that we don’t have burnout. Yeah, I have my kids who are amazing. So like dancing, like in the mornings, we’ll get up we’ll put music on. Like, that’s something I love doing. Meditating. I’m also a coach. So I’m involved in things like coaching for myself, I get coached even though I coach, so I put myself in areas where I’m causing developing my mind and stretching it and just learning who I am. But then I take time out. I make sure I’m around good people that push me to better myself, but also give me a space that I can just be myself.

Charlotte

Kyle, what kinds of things do you do to keep yourself well? 

Kyle

Well, it’s mainly you know, getting creative. I could literally sit at home all day, if I’ve got, I work with a lot of recycled wood. So I would sit there by left with frankincense or sage. And I’ll literally have it sitting there beside me, put my music on and get creative. I ride a bike lot so so I’ll get up I’ll go cycle however many miles throughout the day, just to sort of like get any form of aggression or anything out. Same kind of thing, meditation. I’ve got a good friend who’s a psychotherapist. So say right, as you said, sometimes I’ll have these groups like men’s group and their conversations’d be so intense that it’s like I’ve gotta get on the phone to her so it’s like “you know what, I’ve just…” and she’ll break it down to me and she’ll like “right” so but the thing is where she’ll do it is like I will actually, they will ask you the questions and will sit and make me reflect on things. Journaling is another thing sometimes I’ll sit and do. I notice once I do put things down on paper, so when I’ll sit and wait, I’ll come back and look at and reflect on you know what, at that time last year I was doing this, oh yeah, I remember I forgot around these goals but it’s just another way of me getting it out.

Charlotte

Yeah, Ashleigh, what kind of things do you do? 

Ashleigh

Obviously, I suffer from high level of anxiety so me being around people socially helps that. My kids as well though they’re sometimes… they are my all, they mold me to be the person I am so they motivate me. Cleaning, putting on music, to training, I’ve got so many courses I’ve done in the last two years. I can’t even believe I’ve even completed them so me just keeping busy and productive. Me also being an ear for other people you know, is you know, another thing that kind of makes me feel like okay, so then I know I’m making someone else’s day better. Over the years, obviously I’ve gone through quite a lot of trauma. So that’s why when I was talking about certain things, I was not navigating it to me but I was navigating it. But what I was saying is, because I’ve had so much trauma identified that I’ve had trauma, I’ve realized that certain parts of my body is affected. So I know that now me being a high level of anxiety person, I know I get pins and needles in my cheeks, sometimes I can feel that my heart is beating very fast. Sometimes I can get pains in certain places and realize that if someone else is around me that’s feeling agitated, I’ll kind of take on their pain as well. So I’ve just kind of just identified that, if I explain myself a little bit more, be around people that I can open up to, and know that they won’t judge me or anything like that. But then that kind of puts me you know, settled. And like I said, just keeping busy as well also helps that stay at bay. But even now, I’m speaking to you my cheeks have some pins and needles in it, but it’s just me just like, I don’t know, I feel like I’m always the one that tries to help other people. So me then speaking about myself, I get a bit like, I don’t really like speaking about myself. I’m a more of a helper, like, “Oh you going through this, trying to help you more and signpost you, let me go do this.” I’m happy to go and be busy in that way. But I feel like, with my body, I’ve realized over the last couple of years that these are the things that happen to me when I’m feeling flustered or when I’m feeling worried or when I’m feeling stressed. I didn’t know about it before. 

Charlotte

So I’m hearing a lot of things. I’m hearing a lot of stuff to keep well, like you do self care, you’d meditate you’d be in the moment you’d be present, you’ll be you know, taking that time out on looking and actually understanding what your body’s going through. What other things do we can we can do in terms of seeking help and trying to understand trauma?

Mitchelle

I think it’s like, last year, I lost my granddad. So I knew that coming up to the anniversary of his death, I knew for me, I needed, I needed space. So I was very aware of the fact that, why don’t we…we always wait for the afterfact, we don’t learn about intervening early. And for me, it was like, “Okay, I know the anniversary is coming up, let me go and take a space. I don’t know how it’s gonna affect me. But I’m gonna go have a space.” And I think sometimes we wait until we’re at the bottom before we and we have to think climb, climb up. Actually, sometimes if we can just intervene early, that can then change the course of six months for us, because we can then, we’re supporting ourselves. I think it’s about being kind. And knowing that actually, I don’t think we know how to be kind to ourselves. Like Ashleigh just said, she’s happy to do everything for everyone else. Help, help, help. And distract herself from what I go through, what she’s going through. So it’s like looking at how you be kind to yourself.

Charlotte

Okay, so, you know, if you noticed your mental health was slipping, and you know, you wasn’t feeling too great. And you started withdrawing whatever. What would be the first place or point that you would go to? Like, it’s all very well going to workshops and doing all that kind of stuff. But like for basic things. Where do you go?

Mitchelle

You can Google things. You can Google, I think people use Google for things that maybe don’t benefit them sometimes, but you can actually Google because there’s so many different organizations out there. You can go to your doctor, yeah, you can go to look community centers.

Kyle

Any reception area, you’ll find a lot of information on different local services. 

Ashleigh

We’ve also got coffee mornings at schools, schools always have that information in the reception area to say that we’ve got coffee mornings on a Wednesday, if you’re able to come at 930, then you’ll be able to talk about your wellbeing and if you want to share things. So they have that in the schools, they’re starting to do that more, so that’s something someone can go and do if they felt they if they didn’t want to go to a GP. 

Mitchelle

I think it’s about knowing that you can go and look for things and it might not be the right thing for you. And I think that’s the thing. I think people think about if you go somewhere and it’s not great, that’s fine. You can go somewhere else, or they might want to tell you somewhere else. I think it’s just knowing that even if you go something, it doesn’t sit with you, it doesn’t align with you. You can try again. because not everyone’s for everyone. So it’s just knowing that you might go to someone and think, “Oh, yeah, I have to stay with that person,” and not like the experience. And then it’s like, “Oh, no, I’m never gonna do this again.” But actually it’s just knowing that it doesn’t sit right with me, I’m going to look to someone else. And I think that’s what it is, is knowing that there are places out there, but not everywhere is going to align with you. And if it doesn’t align with you, that’s okay. Let’s see where else I can go. 

Ashleigh

Also taking up a sport. Just even just go into laze in a park and just reflect on natural earth and stuff like that. So maybe just taking off your socks and just grounding yourself just little things like that can also, you know, be more natural lifting than having to really look for an organization and stuff like that – just for the people that may not want to do any of that, there are just normal alternatives just walk outside just taking fresh air, sun, anything 

Charlotte

No, I agree because it can completely change your mindset. You can be stuck inside getting all anxious and you’ll step outside when the park or go shop or something you’ll come back feeling refreshed yeah 

Ashleigh

And music as well. Music has always been my my thing. Sometimes I put my frankincense on…. even the cat comes in, he’s happy to know like. I’ve got piano now I never used to know about it before but the South African music’s just amazing…

Charlotte

I think music can really lift your spirits can really change the way that you think. And even my boys they have got little speakers all in my house we love music on the minute we wake up until we go bed and even just to have a shower, they’re putting their tunes on. And I hear them singing in there, both of them, both my boys do that. 

Kyle

My daughter loves music to play where she’s actually made her own tracks. And sometimes, she’ll be in her room and she’ll be sitting there writing and I’m sort of like, “What are you writing?”.  She’s sort of like “i’m writing lyrics for my next song” 

Charlotte

It’s another great way to express yourself and to be creative like you say. So what’s one, what’s the one thing that you would change to improvement or how metal?

Mitchelle

I would change the narrative around it. I think it’s got such a stigma. And even me when I was younger, I think about being a therapist was never in my even mindset. I saw therapists as Fraser from the program Fraser? Yeah, that was like, I can’t be that! Like, I mean, so I think just changing what therapy looks like, what it is. I think people just think we’ve got to have an issue, it has to be something’s wrong with me. And I think actually no, like, everyone needs a space. I think changing support and not even just therapy, just what support looks like. Because even mentoring, I think it used to be known as like the bad kids in school. Yeah, they need a mentor. It can only be the bad kids. Yeah, and there’s other kids that need that just that same support that confidence. No one knows that maybe they’re not happy, that one parent’s not in the house, and they just need someone to build their self esteem. I think if we can reformat the language that’s kind of come about with it. It’s like the word victim, everyone feels like the word victim means there’s something wrong with me it means I’m weak. Actually, it’s the definition to associate the difference between the perpetrator and the person that was the crime was committed against, it doesn’t mean that you’re weak. If we can we change language, terminologies like strong, victim, all those things look like, I think that would be a great start.

Kyle

From that, from changing the curriculum. Yeah, bring in wellbeing and mental wellbeing and all them, meditation, everything into schools, because if they can learn to deal with emotions from a young age, then leading up to whatever situation they go through, they’re going to be better prepared for it.

Charlotte

What about yourself Ashleigh? 

Ashleigh

I was gonna say that! Also just changing the mindset of how the Government chooses to fund certain things. I feel like they need to give back into schools, into after projects as well, let’s say after school projects, but just in general, just stuff like that. I think we over tend to think what we should have in schools and what school should be and oh my gosh because it’s curriculum we need to make sure that it’s Maths, English and Sciences like. It’s beyond that now, we’re in 2022, we need to bring in wellbeing, we need to bring in mental health, we need to bring in all of these things from a younger age for the children to understand that this is normal. This is our new normal. Things like that.

Mitchelle

Look at how many adults if you really sit down and think about when adults talk about, “Oh, I found myself, I found myself.” Why can’t we help you find yourself from young? 

Ashleigh

It should start from young. 

Mitchelle

It should start from young 100%.

Charlotte

Right. And so we’ve gone through a lot of stuff today, we’ve gone through a lot of questions, and we’ve come up with some good things. So we’ve spoken about, you know what trauma is. And do we necessarily know that we’re in trauma, like we’ve got our families as well, we don’t always know that we’re in trauma. And when if we do feel like we’re having trauma or mental health or sleep, then we can go to doctors, we can go to schools, we’ve got a lot of things that we can go to. How we look after ourselves, that’s kind of like self care like sleeping and being creative, getting outside, like these are all great things that hopefully, I think other people you know listening to this podcast is going to be able to relate to and hopefully they get some information out of it. And then let’s say from school, we need to be taught these things from young, you know, what, what, what it feels like, but our kids need to be free and open to express themselves, if they’re not feeling great. So yeah, I’d like to thank you all very much, yeah, for coming in. It’s been really interesting. We could sit here for hours going on about this, it’s such a huge subject, anyway, isn’t it? Okay, thanks all for listening. 

Kyle

Thank you. 

Mitchelle

Thanks for having us. 

Ashleigh

Thank you.

Charlotte

Thank you for listening to Uniting Against Violence, the podcast about reducing serious youth violence within our communities. We’ve put useful links to the things we’ve talked about today in this episode’s description. If you found this episode useful, please subscribe, share and like on socials at Uniting Against Violence. If you’d like to get in touch with us, you can also email us at unitingagainstviolence@gmail.com. Reducing violence is a big topic and we know we can’t cover everything and every perspective. So if you’re listening to this and thinking about something that we’ve missed, we encourage you to start conversations where you are. Together we can unite against violence. This episode was co-produced by Debbie Felix and Sarah Hutt. Guest speakers were Kyle Addy, Mitchelle Greenaway and Ashleigh Jackson with editing by Sarah Hutt and the host was me Charlotte Keith. Special thanks to our partners, Islington and Camden Council, Public Health, The Parent House and Crux, also Jigsaw GC and Men in Motion and our funder, the Mayor of London as well as our guest speakers. Thanks for listening and tune in for our next episode.